THE FORMIDABLE TIGER CLAW
The following discussion is reproduced from the thread Grappling and Kungfu started in the Shaolin Wahnam Discussion Forum on 18th April 2003
18th April 2003 Welcome back. I like the new look.
|Although I by no means have the internal force of yourself Antonius in tiger claw...|
Bah. We've never met! You don't know my force. I do have force, but my Tiger Claw is nothing. I don't train it seriously...yet. However, I can still rip off ears, gouge eyes, claw genitals, and tear skin. I can also grip some points, especially if you hold still.
|I can grab someone.s throat or elbow, but really if the force is great enough you can grab anywhere in any position and get a similar result.|
This is the key. There are 3 main principles in Chin Na: separating tendons, wronging joints, and gripping points. A master of Chin Na has so many potential targets -- targets that most people wouldn't think of as a target, like the hip. A grappler presents many opportunities. Many of these opportunities are actually quite easy to grab (pun intended).
|In your opinion Antonius, is it alright to train Taming the Tiger (i.e. pushups on your fingers) on its own to safely attain at least some internal force?|
Lots of people do pushups on their fingers without any noticeable problems. But then, lots of people do pushups on their fingers without developing any internal force.
Taming the Tiger is a relatively external method. In my opinion, if you follow the instructions respectfully, you should be fine. Just to be safe, use some Dit Da Jow (medicinal wine) and/or do some qigong therapy (like Lifting the Sky) afterwards. (I forget. Do you know some qigong?)
However, Taming the Tiger, on its own, isn't likely to give you a powerful Tiger claw. The key to a good tiger claw is internal force. Taming the Tiger does not focus on internal force. For example, Sifu has trained his Tiger Claw using several methods, but the key ingredient is internal force.
I'll tell a quick story about the Tiger Claw. Sifu recently did a test of his gripping with some inner chamber disciples. Sifu applied his claw to a disciple and asked him to tap out when the pain became unbearable. Sifu then slowly started to exert his force through the claw. The student tapped out at what Sifu estimated was only 15% of his force.
Ripley's Believe It, Or Not.
Note: I would like to point out that being on the receiving end of this kind of demonstration is actually a tremendous honor. Some disbelievers might jump up and say, "I want to feel that!" What they fail to realize is that a demonstration of such awesome power is an honor usually reserved for disciples who have earned the Master's trust.
18th April 2003
This is my favorite discussion regarding kungfu lacking in ground fighting. juszczec:
Antonius is 100% correct on the Tiger Claw thing. You can defeat/frustrate all locks and throws with just a simple tiger claw.
How do I know? I use it in Hsing-I Although the name is differ (In Hsing-I, tiger claw is basically the opening form of splitting fist, when a plam change to a fist), the application is the same. Although Hsing-I lacking in joint lock ( In Hsing-I tiger claw is only use to muscle grab, not joint lock), I can use 1 simple movement to counter virtually every throws and joint lock (Both standing and ground lock).
This is just one of the example: Big guy executes a shoot for double leg takedown. I didn't get a chance to go for a sprawl and was taken down. He gets into a top mount and tries to execute a figure four on my right arm. He needs two hands to execute a figure four, right? My left arm is free. I can use my left arm to muscle grab the rib cage on his right side (It's open). He will feel the pain (trust me on this one, or better yet ask someone to muscle grab that area, you will feel it). I can use this opportunity to get up or reverse the mount position.
Regarding why not many people learn it?
- Antonius give you the first one.
- People's lack of confidence in kungfu ground technique.
- If it is not used in UFC or PrideFC, it is totally useless (Not true!!!)
In this case 1 Tiger Claw>>>>Ground locks + throws.
"Open Your Chest" Sifu Wong (Intensive Kungfu Course 11/23 -11/29/04)