SOME INTERESTING QUESTIONS ON INTERNAL FORCE

Golden Bell

Grandmaster Wong's son, Sifu Wong Chun Nga, gives an impromptu demonstration of "Golden Bell" during an intensive kungfu course. Sifu Mark Appleford chops Sifu Wong Chun Nga with a meat chopper but it bounces off from his body.


The following discussion is reproduced from the thread What is Genuine, Traditional Taijiquan? started in the Shaolin Wahnam Discussion Forum on 5th June 2006.


"Can I hit someone in a controlled fashion and not project force, then yes. I do that in sparring."

-- Sifu Anthony Korahais


Kevin
USA
21st June 2006

Just a few quick questions for Sifu Korahais, and any other Wahnam Sifus if they'd like to respond.

I was watching that old video demonstration of Iron Shirt by GrandMaster Wong's student. As he was being punched and kicked, the topic of internal force, chi, etc. came to me and brought some questions to my mind. I'll try to ask them in a simple manner, but no promises. ;)

Were those who were doing the punching/kicking also Grandmaster Wong's students? If so, were the punches/kicks they were delivering purely physical, or were they executed with internal force?

If the strikes were executed with internal force, and the student was using Iron Shirt, did the internal force bounce back on those doing the striking?

If someone who has trained, and can apply, internal force in punches and kicks wanted to just punch or kick someone purely physically, with no chi/internal force, is that possible? Or once you have internal force, like Grandmaster Wong and the Wahnam Sifus, is that internal force/chi always going to come through your punches/kicks, no matter what?

Assuming those doing the punching/kicking in that video had and were using internal force in their strikes, would they have to have less internal force/power than the one demonstrating the Iron Shirt, in order not to hurt him. For example, both Sifu Korahais and Sifu Kai Uwe have internal force, but (from what I've read on the Forum) Sifu Kai has much more internal force, so if he hit Sifu Korahais (even though Sifu Korahais has internal force) Sifu Kai's strike would hurt him because he has more internal force. But even though Sifu Kai's internal force is extremely powerful, if GrandMaster Wong were to strike him, much damage would be done, because Grandmaster Wong's internal force is even more powerful?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my questions.

Best wishes, Kevin


Anthony Korahais Sifu Anthony Korahais
Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam USA
21st June 2006

These are good questions, Kevin.

Sifu's training methods were quite different 25 years ago. This is one of the things that I most respect about Sifu -- that he is constantly perfecting himself, and that includes his teaching methods. Even in the 9 years I've been with him, I've watched his methods constantly improve.

Back when that video was taken, not all of Sifu's students had a lot of internal force. Some did, some didn't. Wong Yin Tat specialized in Iron Shirt. Other students had other specialties.

Iron Shirt is not as effective against internal force, but Yin Tat had a lot more force than any of the other students. It's a tricky equation, but ultimately, the one with more force will "win".

Actually, this reminds me of a story Sifu told me about Wong Yin Tat. Despite Yin Tat's Iron Shirt, Sifu once injured him with a seemingly gentle touch of his Cosmos Palm. Sifu's Cosmos Palm penetrated Yin Tat's Iron Shirt quite easily.

In this particular instance, Sifu was intentionally using his internal force, although he was not trying to hurt Yin Tat. (He was generously giving Yin Tat a demonstration of internal force.) If Yin Tat had stayed relaxed, he would have been fine, and the force would have passed through. But because Yin Tat tensed up at the last moment, the force got stuck, and he was injured as a result.

Can I strike someone without internal force? It's a good question, and I'm not sure I know the answer. If you mean, can I hit someone in a controlled fashion and not project force, then yes. I do that in sparring. But if you mean, can I hit someone full power (like in the video) and not use internal force, then I'm not sure.

Any volunteers?

__________________
Anthony Korahais
Shaolin Wahnam, Florida
Website: http://www.FlowingZen.com
YouTube: http://www.YouTube.com/FlowingZen
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Golden Bell

An old picture showing a public demonstration of "Bolden Bell" by Sifu Goh Kok Hin, Grandmaster Wong's most senior disciple. A group of people ram him with a heavy tree trunk while another person hits him with tiles on his back, but Sifu Goh is not hurt at all!


Anthony Korahais Sifu Anthony Korahais
Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam USA
21st June 2006

Ah, the miracles of Google. Seek, and ye shall find (in roughly 10 seconds).

You can read about the story I described in my last post (about Sifu injuring Wong Yin Tat with his Cosmos Palm) here:

http://www.shaolin.org/answers/ans04a/may04-3.html.

Enjoy.

__________________
Anthony Korahais
Shaolin Wahnam, Florida
Website: http://www.FlowingZen.com
YouTube: http://www.YouTube.com/FlowingZen
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Kevin
USA
21st June 2006

Thank you for your quick reply Sifu Korahais. I posted those questions right before I went to lunch, and when I came back, they were answered! Can't beat that turn-around.

As far as you not using internal force when striking, I was meaning could you hit someone full (physical) power, such as body mechanics, putting all of your weight into the strike, etc., without using any internal force?

But I suppose that's an intellectual question, because I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to volunteer for that experiment.

Thanks again,
Kevin


Antidote
Shaolin Wahnam Portugal
21st June 2006

I used to buy a magazine called “Tai Chi Magazine”. It's a very famous magazine about Tai Chi Chuan. It has interviews and articles written by famous masters and grandmasters.

I stopped buying the magazine because it was rare to find an article mentioning internal force or chi. The majority of masters and grandmasters resumed all to body mechanics and kinetic energy.

So I understand why it's common to Tai Chi students and instructors not to believe in chi and internal force. Their masters and grandmasters, who are authorities in their respective lineages do not believe in chi too or do not teach it and not talk openly about that.

Blessings

Antidote


Anthony Korahais Sifu Anthony Korahais
Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam USA
22nd June 2006


Dear Kevin,

Quote:
"could you hit someone full (physical) power, such as body mechanics, putting all of your weight into the strike, etc., without using any internal force?"

I can now. Sifu kindly sent me an email explaining how to do this. There are two methods:

Purposely tense your muscles while you strike. This will interrupt the flow of chi, thus preventing the flow of internal force.

Purposely use your intent to stop the flow of internal force at the shoulder or elbow.

With both methods, one would need to do "Lifting the Sky" afterwards to clear the resulting blockage.

It's funny. The first method is basically what we did in Karate. The second method is something that never occurred to me, although it makes perfect sense. I guess I'm just not one of those people who stops a sneeze midway.

Best,

__________________
Anthony Korahais
Shaolin Wahnam, Florida
Website: http://www.FlowingZen.com
YouTube: http://www.YouTube.com/FlowingZen
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/login.php



What is Genuine, Traditional Taijiquan?

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